The SEO Agency Rollercoaster with Taras Vasylyshyn of Panem

Andrew:

Welcome to the SEO Agency Rollercoaster Podcast. Here we sit down with agency leaders to fuel the ambitions of up-and-coming SEO entrepreneurs, equip them with the insights they need to start, grow and scale an SEO agency. Think of it as a roadmap to success packed with lessons from industry leaders who have been there and done that. 

My name is Andrew Zarudnyi and I’m from SE Ranking. And as always, I’m joined by my co-host, agency coach Chris Simmance of the OMG Center and of the Worshipful Company of Entrepreneurs. Today, we’re thrilled to have Taras Vasylyshyn of Panem on the show.

We’re excited to uncover the highs, lows, and game-changing moments of running a digital agency. If you’re ready to take control of your future in SEO, buckle up for a thrilling ride and insightful, impactful event. So let’s get started. Welcome, Taras! Hey, Chris!

Chris:

Hello! Hello! Hello! Ready to rock and roll. I think we’re just talking about fake spring. So I’ve got the heating back on at home again. I thought we had the windows open at the weekend and now we’ve got the heating back on. So jumpers in the house, the heating on for us. Don’t know what it’s like for you guys where you are, but not very nice. 

Welcome to the podcast, Taras! So what we really want to do in this episode is kind of really get under the skin of like, what makes you run this agency? What makes you get involved in this industry?

Because it is constantly changing. It is a roller coaster. It is up and down every single day. Some days you’re popping the champagne, other days maybe popping something else, but we won’t talk about that. 

So do you want to tell us a little bit about what your personal journey has been like? How did you get into this and what’s the story?

Taras:

Thanks for the questions. My professional journey has been quite diverse. I’ve got experience working as a freelance SEO specialist and head of e-commerce. Over time, this experience has led me to become the co-founder and CEO of Panem agency. And I truly believe that every experience, regardless of the role, provides valuable lessons that can help you grow and succeed in the future. The experience was great.

Chris:

Was it an obvious path? You know, you follow the trajectory, you’ve gone from freelance to this, to this, to this, to running Panem? Or what was like the initial vision? What got you waking up in the morning and go, I’m to do this myself and have all the wins and all of the pain.

Taras:

I guess it’s a good motivation to founding Panem. And from the very beginning, my vision was to create a company that doesn’t rely on the success of the few organizations at a time. You can deliver exceptional results to a wider list of clients. And I guess it’s to create additional value to your client and to your, maybe, partners of the business. That’s the main idea.

Andrew:

So we understand that there’s a lot of risk involved in this journey that you chose to have in your life. And I was wondering, what is the most important risk you took at Panem and why you decided to take it? We just want to understand, what was there like a moment when you were sleeping really poorly because you were just struggling with deciding what to do next? And I just want to understand what you think was one of the most important risks for Panem.

Taras:

Maybe the biggest risk I took at Panem was transitioning to the role of CEO. And in the early days of Panem, and over the next few years, we had a very flat structure. My partner and I were SEO team leads. We had teams and it’s not a managing role and switching from an SEO team lead to a traditional executive was a big step, to be honest. 

Taking on the SEO role was a major leap for me. I wasn’t sure I would be able to handle it with this broader list of responsibilities, make the right strategic decisions, and lead the company. Looking back, it was the defining moment that helped me and the company grow, both personally and professionally. And it ultimately allowed Panem to evolve into a more mature and scalable organization.

Andrew:

Besides the fact that Panem is still working, what is your biggest moment that makes you proud? The biggest achievement of Panem so far in your journey?

Taras:

Actually, it’s hard to choose one thing. First of all, I’m proud we have built a strong team of professionals with diverse expertise. Secondly, we are known for delivering outstanding results for our clients, helping their businesses grow in line and achieve their goals.

Andrew:

Alright, so let’s move on to the present section of this discussion.

Chris:

Running an agency is a bit stressful at times, a lot stressful at times actually. What is it, aside from your alarm clock that gets you up in the morning? What keeps you going when things are hard?

Taras:

I got up this morning because I believe that Ukrainian businesses are now one of the strongest voices of Ukrainians in the world. Our mission is to integrate into the global business community, into the global SEO community, and the marketing community. It’s about resilience, it’s about excellence and showing the world we are capable of being a trusted digital partner. That’s what gets me going every day. 

Chris:

Even on the weekend?

Taras:

Even on the weekends. It’s like a mission, nowadays we should provide better results, and it’s moving faster.

Chris:

I had to look at your website earlier today, and you offer a lot of different services. What specifically do you, if you were to sort of say this is the specific services that we’re offering or like how are you kind of tailoring all of these services to meet a client’s unique set of needs and desires?

Taras:

I guess the first step is to really understand your ICP, the ideal customer profile, and main perspective is like our main idea is problem solving and trying to understand how we can solve some problems for our clients. And when you understand your ICP, industry, region and maybe industry insights, it can help to create better communication and collaboration with you.

Chris:

Nice! I like that. 

This might be something that you bring into the agency as a business part rather than for the clients. But what I’ve been working on with the SE Ranking team recently is tools and content to help improve agency profitability. One of which I’ve built a tool recently, Andrew has seen it. And what I’m adding on to that at the minute is a way that a new lead comes in, it uses the SE Ranking API, it scrolls all of that data, fires over to the OpenAI API.

It pulls a lot more insight through, and then you can overlay that with the ICP of your business with the average fees that the clients might spend. And it tells you, yeah, you can go and pitch for this. Here’s the things that you should include in your, in your proposal or your outreach. No, you shouldn’t pitch for this. This doesn’t fit your ICP. And that’s using like two individual tools. One is an AI API. The other one is just a data API from SE Ranking. And then you overlay an additional kind of level of insight that kind of helps you go. This is my outreach email. There we go. 

And I think that from a business point of view, AI is certainly going to be helping from a workflow point of view, perhaps not just from a content creation side of things, but also probably from actually running the business more effectively. And I can see agencies starting to want to use these kinds of things for the business aspect.

Andrew:

I read the news that one of the AIs is offering $20,000 a month super intelligent AI that will just do everything for you and give you, like a super, like a billion-dollar plan for the next half a year. So, yeah, that’s very exciting stuff. 

I want to talk about Panem’s team. So what was the composition like when you started? How it grew? Is it made up of in-house professionals, a lot of freelancers working with you, partners? Please just address that situation because we just want to understand how you make up your team so that it performs smoothly and performs really well.

Taras:

Actually, we have a big team, I guess maybe 100 professionals. At Panem, our team is structured into several departments, into SEO, pay-per-click, and others. Each further divided into teams, approximately five to seven specialists. Each team includes an SEO team lead, tech leads, project manager, middle specialist, junior specialist.

Andrew:

Let’s take a step back. You’re telling me already about the situation is at an agency that has over 100 employees. So that’s an exceptionally well-performing agency. 

Chris:

Huge, yeah.

Andrew:
So let’s take a step back when you had two people. How did you expand that team? What did you look for in new employees to make sure that they’re in it for the long game? And what did you avoid? What do you try to avoid in new employees? And how do you keep them motivated on the team? How do you make sure that they stick around with you for, I don’t know, five years, for example?

Taras:

Our growth was very, very flat and we tried to hire the right professionals and we set up internships and we delivered education content to the community, we educate our people, we educate the community, we tried to hire the best performer, we tried to hire I guess maybe the best soft and hard skilled professionals and actually we are here.

Chris:

If you forget the skills based thing, because obviously with a large team, dynamics is really, really important. You know, you don’t want the SEO team sitting completely separate from the PPC people because there’s obvious benefits to those people working together quite well. What is it from a personality point of view from a, from a humanity, human point of view, because agencies are people businesses. 

What is it you look at when you’re hiring, like, okay, on paper, SEO skills–a 100%, PPC skills–10%, are they’re going to be in the SEO team? Really nice person. How are you deciding out of like two people which one would get the job? What’s the human aspect that comes into those decisions?

Taras:

Firstly, when we hire new staff, we look for individuals who align with our values and who can contribute proactively. We avoid candidates who lack accountability. We avoid candidates who resist collaboration or are not willing to embrace the growth mindset.

Chris:

Awesome. Looking into the future, what is it like, what is one thing that you would love to change about the whole industry in total?

Taras:

If I could change one thing in the industry, I would focus exclusively on ethical and white hat industries or niches. And it’s eliminating sectors like gambling, like adult industries. And in my opinion, digital marketing has immense potential to drive sustainable long-term growth for businesses that create real wealth and prioritizing transparency and high quality services for ethical industries would not only improve their reputation on the field, but also foster more mindful and responsible business.

Andrew:

Let’s talk about goals. Like a big goal. Because you said once the company was flat, it was not growing. So you realized there were different goals for 2022, when the war started. 2024. Let’s talk about last year, and what is the goal for this year for Panem?

Taras:

You know, our country is at war with russia and I believe that keeping our entire team intact and continuing to grow is already a major achievement. This year’s goal is to become an even stronger company, boosting efficiency and developing even better results for our clients and team. I guess a 20% growth would be great.

Andrew:

Understood. Thank you for sharing the plans.

Chris:

So quickfire round, I’ve got three questions for you. Quickfire. So cats or dogs?

Taras:

Definitely dogs. I have a Pomeranian named Kobe. It’s like Kobe Bryant. 

Chris:

Tea or coffee?

Taras:

Coffee but with some limitation on the number of cups a day.

Chris:

Yeah, well, we have to regulate ourselves, otherwise we’d be moving too quickly. And then the final one, and this may well get you cancelled in the SEO industry or maybe not. Links or content?

Taras:

Content is the king but distribution is the queen and she runs a tight ship.

Andrew:

That was really good. Alright. Thank you, Taras, for coming on and let’s do the outro. And I want to say that that’s a wrap for this episode of the SEO Agency Rollercoaster. A huge thank you to Taras Vasylyshyn of Panem for coming on and sharing his journey and inspiring the next wave of SEO entrepreneurs. 

This podcast is powered by SE Ranking, the SEO toolset that helps agencies scale smarter and achieve lasting success. If you’re serious about building up your agency, SE Ranking is here to help you make your mark online. Hit subscribe for more expert insights, motivation and agency growth hacks. 

Keep pushing forward, stay ahead of the curve, and remember your agency success story starts with action. Thank you, Chris! Thank you, Taras, for coming on!